[ZoWie]

All of this is what I mean about liability. If a government cleans up an oil spill there's one set of values. If they have been good Thatcherites and privatized everything, they'll need to let a corporation come in and take over, and the corporation will have a different set of values. They will immediately call down to Legal and ask how to minimize losses from future court proceedings. From then on, everything will be about how much this is going to cost down the line, how to keep information out of the public record where law firms can research it, and how to get everyone in sight signed to non-disclosure no-sue contracts.

This is not good or bad. It's just how people do things. A lot of people didn't think before they drowned government in the bathtub. If they had, they'd have understood that it would have replaced one type of bureaucracy with another.

[101Scout]

I was trying to find that story from yesterday about how toxic the heavy drilling mud being used in the Gulf is. On top of everything else that's poisoned the Gulf of BP, now the huge amounts of drilling mud used on these wells is bad news too. If I find the story about the toxins in drilling mud, I'll or someone else please post that here.

[ZoWie]

Well, I know that drilling mud is not just dirt and water, and that they pump tons of it down wells as part of the standard procedure. When the federal something-or-other thought I owned an oil well (I wish!), it was faxing me all about how much mud they'd put down "my" well today. It was always a lot. They use it for everything.

Ahhh, Wiki is your friend:

Many types of drilling fluids are used on a day-to-day basis. Some wells require that different types be used at different parts in the hole, or that some types be used in combination with others. The various types of fluid generally fall into a few broad categories:[1]

...
* Water-based mud (WBM):

A most basic water-based mud system begins with water, then clays and other chemicals are incorporated into the water to create a homogenous blend resembling something between chocolate milk and a malt (depending on viscosity). The clay (called "shale" in its rock form) is usually a combination of native clays that are suspended in the fluid while drilling, or specific types of clay that are processed and sold as additives for the WBM system. The most common of these is bentonite, frequently referred to in the oilfield as "gel". Gel likely makes reference to the fact that while the fluid is being pumped, it can be very thin and free-flowing (like chocolate milk), though when pumping is stopped, the static fluid builds a "gel" structure that resists flow. When an adequate pumping force is applied to "break the gel", flow resumes and the fluid returns to its previously free-flowing state. Many other chemicals (e.g. potassium formate) are added to a WBM system to achieve various effects, including: viscosity control, shale stability, enhance drilling rate of penetration, cooling and lubricating of equipment.

* Oil-based mud (OBM):

Oil-based mud can be a mud where the base fluid is a petroleum product such as diesel fuel. Oil-based muds are used for many reasons, some being increased lubricity, enhanced shale inhibition, and greater cleaning abilities with less viscosity. Oil-based muds also withstand greater heat without breaking down. The use of oil-based muds has special considerations. These include cost and environmental considerations.


* Synthetic-based fluid (SBM):

Synthetic-based fluid is a mud where the base fluid is a synthetic oil. This is most often used on offshore rigs because it has the properties of an oil-based mud, but the toxicity of the fluid fumes are much less than an oil-based fluid. This is important when men work with the fluid in an enclosed space such as an offshore drilling rig.

[bluepilgrim]

I use a lot of bentonite -- it's the clay used in clumping cat litter. It's very slippery when wet, but clumps up and will clog the toilet if one is foolish enough to try to flush it, and does clump into a fairly solid mass. I don't think the green flavor crystals they add to cat litter changes the physical properties much. Interesting stuff -- I looked it up (including on wikipedia, of course) when I first read the KL ingredients. I try to look up eveything I come in contact with. Clays of all sorts are very interesting (I also researched them a bit back when I was trying to do some pottery -- never was able to get the kiln hooked up).

Ordinary cat litter is widely used for absorbing oil spills -- like on the garage floor -- but is not quite as slippery as bentonite. There is a huge branch of 'materials science' which is somewhat related to chemistry (as in molecular formulas) but much different in practice --- matrix and grain structures, metal alloys, hardness and machinability, heat resistance, soldering bonds, concrete hardening -- the stuff machinists, craftsman, artists and builders deal with. It's great technical stuff to retreat into when one's mind becomes overloaded with politics and such. If you are getting too crazy reading politics, etc., read about clay and metalurgy.

But even that stuff relates to safety: artists get poisoned; blacksmiths go deaf; welders can damage their eyes; people exposed to dust can't breath. Craftsman who work with this stuff pay attetenion to such things -- politicians and oil executives don't give a shit as long as make money and gain power: it's not THEIR noses which fall off by being dissolved in acids, or THEIR lives lost from being poisoned.

[101Scout]

Thanks for the johnny on the spot responses about the well mud guys. I did locate the article that now finds Tony the Bonehead BP fuckup also guilty (not officially) of perjuring us about the toxicity of the well mud used. The well mud used is harmful to creatures. Not that it matters since everything else is killing them and eventually us off. But for the record, another lie... another direct intent of negligence for destroying all things breathing in the Gulf of BP and beyond.




http://www.examiner....e-to-be-perjury
BP admits top kill mud was toxic: Tony Hayward US Senate testimony might now prove to be perjury
July 27,
When BP CEO Tony Hayward testified before a US Senate oil spill disaster investigative Committee in June, he said the mud used in BP’s Memorial Day weekend top kill operation was, “"Water-based with no toxicity at all.”

However, NBC News now reports that information relayed by BP officials to Congressman Ed Markey states that the mud used in the top kill procedure contained toxic lye and ethylene glycol.

According to NBC News, “BP used tens of thousands of barrels to try to close the gusher back in May. Most if not all of that drilling mud went into the Gulf.”
.
.
.
Since BP has now confirmed that the mud was indeed toxic, Hayward may now be exposed to charges of perjury for his otherwise evasive testimony at the Senate oil spill disaster hearings on June 17th.

[bluepilgrim]

Lye isn't so much toxic as corrosive, which is a bit different, and can be dilluted or reacts with stuff (it's used to make soap and cure olives), but ethylene glycol is poisonous -- why animals die from getting into antifreeze. You can get lye from leeching wood ashes (they used to use a 'lye barrel' to get it (usually a mix of sodium hydroxide and potassium hydroxide -- make soap and such from it).

http://en.wikipedia....lycol_poisoning
[...]
Ethylene glycol has been shown to be toxic to humans.[1] A toxic dose requiring medical treatment varies but is considered more than 0.1 mL per kg body weight (mL/kg) of pure substance. That is roughly 16 mL of 50% ethylene glycol for an 80 kg adult and just 4 mL for a 20 kg child. Poison control centers often use more than a lick or taste in a child or more than a mouthful in an adult as a dose requiring hospital assessment.[2]

The orally lethal dose in humans has been reported as approximately 1.4 mL/kg of pure ethylene glycol.[3] That is approximately 224 mL of 50% ethylene glycol for an 80 kg adult and just 56 mL for a 20 kg child. Although survival with medical treatment has occurred with doses much higher than this, death has occurred with just 30 mL of the concentrate in an adult.[4][5][6] In the EU classification of dangerous substances it is 'harmful' (Xn) while more toxic substances are classified as 'toxic' (T) or 'very toxic' (T+). The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency‎ generally puts substances which are lethal at more than 30 g to adults in Toxicity Class III.
[...]

[bluepilgrim]

Get the kitty litter!

http://www.kpic.com/...l/99335059.html
Crash sends oil spewing from Gulf well

[photo]
Oil spews from a wellhead in Barataria Bay on the coast of Louisiana, Tuesday, July 27, 2010 after it was struck by a tugboat. A crew capable of capping the well is expected onsite later Tuesday. (AP Photo/Patrick Semansky)


By Associated Press Story Published: Jul 27, 2010 at 11:42 AM PDT

NEW ORLEANS (AP) — Oil is spewing from a damaged well north of a bay where officials have been fighting the spill from the BP disaster in the Gulf of Mexico. | Photos of Gulf well spewing oil

Gallery See all 6 photos » [photos]

The Coast Guard says a tow boat called Pere Ana C. hit the wellhead near Mud Lake early Tuesday. No injuries were reported.

The Coast Guard did not know who owns the small well or how much oil has leaked. But a sheen has been spotted in the lake. Jefferson Parish Councilman Chris Roberts says oil is spewing from the wellhead.

Coast Guard Lt. Brian Sattler says a helicopter has been dispatched to survey the area, which is accessible only by boat.

Mud Lake is part of a network of bayous and lakes north of Barataria Bay, an ecologically sensitive coastal estuary where authorities have been fighting waves of oil from the Gulf spill.


Copyright 2010 The Associated Press.

[101Scout]

Jesus.... is the Gulf Apocalypse Now or what??? Oh hell, just grab up about a million gallons of Coretex and drop it over this leaker too. What the hell, the Gulf of BP is frickin' doomed anyways.

But lets keep Bobby Jindal and Pals happy in the Gulf and Drill Drill Drill.... baby!

[ZoWie]

Who the F leaves a wellhead in such a condition that some Forrest Gump in one of those wretched boats that tows the wretched oil barges all over that area can run into it?

More to the point, who doesn't map it accurately, or account for who the fk capped/ plugged/ abandoned/ whatever said well so they would be responsible?

Damn. This is all just too bizarre. Self-destruction urge, I guess.

[101Scout]

ZoWie, on 28 July 2010 - 03:54 PM, said:

Who the F leaves a wellhead in such a condition that some Forrest Gump in one of those wretched boats that tows the wretched oil barges all over that area can run into it?

I'd test the skipper for alcohol. Or test him for what educational level that he paid for in order to give him passing grades out of school. Shit man... these wells are all probably leaking anyways..... 30,000 + wells??? You kidding me!!?? Like I said weeks ago, I have this friend who worked in Texas during the 1960s and he said that Gulf water was rust brown back then from all those oil wells in which was only a few compared to how many there are now. That Gulf has been doomed since the 50s and 60s.

[ZoWie]

It was a rhetorical question. It is very apparent that the Mississippi Delta region has no lack of dumb shits, or old leaky oil wells. Meanwhile, check it out, a pipeline blew up near Kalamazoo MI yesterday or the day before and dumped another million gallons in a river. Soon we'll be able to drown the government in crude instead of bath water.

[101Scout]

Yeah I saw that also.... oil going into a Mich river. Looks like our water shortages will take place a lot sooner than I ever expected. What little drinking water we have we'll have poisoned the piss out of it well before it's expected end.

[ZoWie]

I think today or tomorrow BP is trying a Static Kill. How this differs from a Top Kill is something I don't know, but it looks like there might be some good stuff to watch on the ROV cameras.

[bluepilgrim]

http://rawstory.com/...l-stillleaking/
[...]
The "static kill" operation would involve pumping heavy drilling fluids known as mud through the blowout preventer valve system that sits on top of the well and then injecting cement to seal it.

Similar to the "top kill" operation that failed in May, BP believes it will now work because the oil and gas in the runaway well is sealed already by its containment cap so the mud won't need to be forced down so hard.
[...]

http://www.csmonitor...-Gulf-oil-spill
[...]
This week BP and Coast Guard officials are preparing what they call a “bottom kill” – the permanent sealing of the runaway Macondo well through one of the two relief wells drilled 13,000 feet below the seafloor. According to Allen, BP will deposit through the relief well a combination of drilling mud, cement, liquids, and nitrogen to stop the flow of oil – perhaps as early as Aug. 7.

That operation will come after “static kill,” which has a tentative start date of next Monday. Static kill would deposit the same mixture of materials into the top of the well. Unlike “top kill” in late May, which employed the same tactic, static kill is considered a more realistic solution to preventing oil flow because the container cap, installed in mid-July, is providing a tighter seal around the wellhead and therefore won't allow oil and gas to escape.

Both operations are being prepared simultaneously. Monday the well lines are being reattached to the riser pipes that extend from the seafloor to near the surface, after they were temporarily abandoned this weekend due to the threat of tropical storm Bonnie. Both lines will be flushed to remove sediments.

Starting Wednesday and continuing through Sunday, the lines will each be fitted with a 2,000-foot internal casing pipe that will carry the materials downward. Once they are in place, the static kill operation will occur, likely Monday. The entire endeavor is set to prepare the launch of the relief well operation.

“The week after next we will have the potential … to begin killing the well,” he said.
[...]

http://www.nola.com/...tic_kill_o.html
BP may push back static kill on its runaway Gulf of Mexico well
Published: Friday, July 30, 2010, 11:57 AM Updated: Friday, July 30, 2010, 12:01 PM
Kimberly Quillen, The Times-Picayune


BP may push back its 'static kill' procedure because it has discovered debris in the bottom of one of the relief wells it is drilling, National Incident Commander Thad Allen said in a press briefing in Florida today.

A drilling rig working on the relief well is currently clearing the debris, which was deposited by Tropical Storm Bonnie. Clearing the debris could take 24 hours, Allen said. Once the debris has been cleared, BP will lay the casing in the relief well, a step the company expects to take on Saturday.

The static kill had been scheduled to take place on Monday, but dealing with the debris could push that procedure back by 24 hours. The static kill involves pumping mud through the top of the well in an attempt to overcome the flow of oil. The static kill, however, can not take place until the relief wells are complete.

Officials had put a plug in the relief well in advance of Bonnie, but some sediment settled in the well during the storm despite the plug.

[101Scout]

Bob Cavnar tonight on Countdown suspects that BP cut off it's camera feed for 3 days to hide the increasing leaks taking place at the well head and container. He fears that the bottom / static kill will go bad. I feel the same way. I think this well will leak no matter what... and we'll never know because it will be hidden away from our eyes.

[mavericksHMB]

101Scout, on 29 July 2010 - 04:15 PM, said:

Yeah I saw that also.... oil going into a Mich river. Looks like our water shortages will take place a lot sooner than I ever expected. What little drinking water we have we'll have poisoned the piss out of it well before it's expected end.

Scout, if you haven't watched "Gasland", I urge you to do so. You can can watch it online here. Just fair warning, you will have to close a lot of ad windows before getting the video to play.

We don't only have the Gulf to worry about. The fracking that natural gas companies are doing to extract natural gas from shale formations is poisoning watersheds all over the country! Lots of information can be found here. If this practice isn't stopped -- and stopped soon! -- we won't have any clean drinking water left in the country. Once these watersheds are poisoned, there's no cleaning them up. Water has to be imported. And where are they going to find water to import if we've managed to poison it all?!

We're racing to the bottom, my friends. It's only a question of how quick that bottom is going to come, not IF it's going to come.

[101Scout]

mavericksHMB, on 30 July 2010 - 11:04 PM, said:

Scout, if you haven't watched "Gasland", I urge you to do so. You can can watch it online here. Just fair warning, you will have to close a lot of ad windows before getting the video to play.

We don't only have the Gulf to worry about. The fracking that natural gas companies are doing to extract natural gas from shale formations is poisoning watersheds all over the country! Lots of information can be found here. If this practice isn't stopped -- and stopped soon! -- we won't have any clean drinking water left in the country. Once these watersheds are poisoned, there's no cleaning them up. Water has to be imported. And where are they going to find water to import if we've managed to poison it all?!

We're racing to the bottom, my friends. It's only a question of how quick that bottom is going to come, not IF it's going to come.

O, I hear ya Mavs..... this has been kicked around somewhat for a few yrs now about the coming water shortages and poisoning what little we now have. This will make for water wars in which may take our wars to the North and South poles. What you have added to this insane march to destroy our water system is.... fracturing. More reasons to believe that were're closer to the end. Only because man has self-fulfilled our doomed destiny with ignorant due diligence. We've been to wars over oil. Oil is now destroying our bodies of water. Ignorance and greed is the blame. Now, we're destroying our water supply in this process.

I got to thinking when reading your post. I always ask the question .... why? Usually, there's no real direct answer... only that our NeoCons has a very distinctive pattern. They destroy for profit. In fact, they destroy all things working just fine in order to make more money from something to take its place. We're in that world of always wiping out what we've perfected.... in order to have something more screwed up while it costs us more to have it. Make sense? It should... we've been doing this for most of my adult life.

So..... we're now in the business of destroying our drinking water... just anything water, it doesn't matter to our corp NeoCons. Why? Because once water is pretty much gone, and wars are taking place in areas where there's some fresh water left.... the rest of the world population will have to set up huge ass purification water systems for cleaning dirty poisoned water. We're already filtering sanitary brown water. (Taking toilet water and turning it into drinking water) Next will be removing all the oil, chemicals and gases from our water.... costly but mandatory. All things on Earth must have water in order to survive. Wow... think of all that money the Cons will make from this world wide water purification project!!! Wars and Purification Stations.... for profits. The perfect NeoCon wet dream!!! Think of the global mass control NeoCons will have over these water purification systems!!! Trillion$ in profits!!! But of course, we'll find out that this purified reconditioned water won't be as good or healthy as the real deal that Earth provided once before. Not only that, but our Cons will be able to slip additives into that reconditioned water.... oh, you know.... stuff that controls our minds. Or makes us more complacent... to where we won't rebel against the establishment. Or, in some other ways, they'll add the aggressive shit to it.... to make us fight more aggressively in the Con's crusades. Taking away a soldier's will to live... because a more dangerous killing soldier is one who doesn't care if they live or not.... making them much more aggressive.

See... regular water from Earth quenches our thirst. It soothes us. It calms us. It's also very satisfying. Well.... can't have happy complacent soldiers in crusades now can we? Con's likes em very aggressive. The kind with super killer instincts. A really pissed off fighter. They'll kill until they're finally killed. What better way to have control over that than reconditioned water? You know... since there's no other choice of drinking water to consume....

So this BP thing.... poisoning the Gulf... is like the next larger experiment... to see how much shit the sheeple of AmeriKa.... especially the really ate up sheeple of the deep South, will take this ongoing poisoning of the Gulf by BP. You know... from what I've heard... it's working really well for BP and our govt. I still hear a lot of Drill Baby Drill in those waters by the very folks in the deep South who are first to be poisoned by the Gulf of BP. We have pockets of other areas in the States where our water is being screwed up.... and we just keep buying bottled water. That's the first little trick that they pulled on us yrs ago... to get us to actually pay for what was free. Water. Bottled water. Like good little sheeple... we passed with flying colors!!! We pay for plastic bottled water... no problem. Now... all that's left is to remove the good drinking water. We'll pay super big bucks for that reconditioned water .... now with additives... errr, I mean vitamins. Here sheeple sheeple sheeple.......

[ZoWie]

It is awesome what's going on down there. Having fought Obama's moratorium in court, now they have Congre$$ in on it.

Reminds me of a death row prisoner fighting NOT to stay his execution.

Yes, the ultimate corporate goal is to make water a commodity sold by corporations instead of municipalities. Having commodified electricity and done all then could to separate generating from distribution (how Marxian is THAT?), now it's time to start on the water.

And, of course, there is always that oil teat we know how to get off but don't, because that would be bad for business. Everywhere you look, oil is making life intolerable, but no one does anything about it.

The part you guys forget is that people will only take so much. Look at Bell, CA. That's fairly near here, and I'm relatively familiar with the place. The population finally marched on City Hall, literally. They came with everything but torches and pitchforks. Some very corrupt people will be lucky if they don't end up in the state pen.

[101Scout]

Well when the money runs out... the food.. the water... utilities.... ppl will get all nasty on each other and maybe sometimes the deserving corp pig or govt goon. I just don't see the hard fighting backbone among our population today as I did when I was a kid. But... when ppl's tv cable, cell phones, computers and water is removed from their daily lives, even the new age crowd just might burn city hall down.

Hey... has their been any official reports on a suspect oil explosion that is said to have taken place a few days ago on the sea floor of the Gulf?? The camera on the sea floor I guess shook pretty bad and then blackness engulfed the camera's view. If this is true, I think that there's been a break in the sea floor and oil may be gushing out. The odd thing is, it's as if the Gulf of BP news has gone almost silent for a week now.

[ZoWie]

The media really have dropped the story. BP's various camera pictures still work, but they have become of nothing. We watch bubbles go by, or pressure needles sit unchanged. Maybe without that strong visual of the oil pouring out, there's no story by their standards.

This is almost certainly what their crisis publicity firm told them would happen, and why the strategy changed from production to "integrity testing" with everything closed up.